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| Need to Vent Group |
| Public online group |
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| Why is it that parents now a days are so damn concered about being their childs 'friend' and being 'respectful' to their child when their child is a total terror? They don't spank because it is 'disrespectful' and they don't do this because its 'degrading' OH PLEASE! You are just making your child think that whatever they want to do, when they want to do it, its ok and to go ahead nomatter if it bothers ANYONE around them. It is so anoying to be around so many mothers who just don't get it, who don't understand that NO MATTER how good you treat your child today, one day...YES ONE DAY you WILL hear these words come out of their mouth directed at you "I HATE YOU" and "YOU'RE NO FAIR" but if you NEVER hear those words.........then you didn't do your job right |
| Posted by Amers on 01/09/2009 02:17 PM
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| I couldn't have said it better. ..... I guess this happened to you recently? How old his your little one? I have an 11 month old girl and her friend is one year older that child doesn't know what the word no means. I tell my daughter no and she stops right away (well 75% of the time) lol. |
| posted by Holly on 01/09/2009 02:46 PM
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Here's a comment from one of those "anti spanking" mothers.
I found this on parenting.com, written by Dr. Sears, one of the most well-know and well-respected pediatricians of our time...read on...
"Spanking doesn't work. In my practice, I have had parents who spank and those who don't. With the ones who do, I've seen that it just doesn't work. Many times the parent will say, "The more we spank, the worse he behaves!" Spanking creates a distance between parent and child. It doesn't promote good behavior, and if it seems to discourage bad behavior, it does so more by force than desire.
As parents of a large family, my wife and I have had to run a well-disciplined household, so I believe in discipline that works. Since my wife and I are aware of the research against spanking and have rarely seen it work, we adapted a "no spanking" attitude in disciplining our children. Having decided that we would not spank our children -- but we would discipline them -- forced us to learn better discipline techniques. If you program yourself with "I will not hit my child," it forces you to stop and take the time to think, "Is there a better way I can handle this situation?"
Spanking models violence. When a big person hits a little person, especially out of anger, it can tell the child that it's okay to hit people. The mom of one of my patients once told me that she thought she had to spank her child to be a good disciplinarian -- until one day she observed her 3-year-old daughter hitting her younger brother. When the mom intervened, the daughter said, "I'm just playing mommy." Obviously, there was no more spanking in that house!
In a child's mind, if Mom or Dad does something, it's okay. If you vent your anger by hitting your child, then it's harder to rationalize to your child why he shouldn't hit someone when he's angry. Empathy -- the ability to think before you act and imagine how your actions will affect the other person -- is one of the main qualities that we want to instill in our children. Spanking sabotages empathy. A child is likely to haul off and hit another child without considering whether his actions are going to hurt the other person.
Research supports not spanking. Long-term studies have shown that children who were spanked tend to be more physically violent as teenagers and adults, are more likely to be bullies at school, and are generally more antisocial. In addition, children who were spanked excessively had a four times greater incidence of becoming spouse-abusers as adults. Spanking families plant the seed of violence in the next generation.
So how should you discipline your child? Getting behind the eyes of your child can do wonders for prompting you to click into a much more sensitive mode of disciplining than spanking. When he misbehaves, stop and think: "If I were my child, how would I want my parent to handle this?" Spanking is simply a force that gets a kid to stop the misbehavior at that particular time. Remember, discipline means teaching. You want your child to obey because he has learned to make his own choices of what is right or wrong, not out of fear of getting spanked."
Oh, and I cetainly won't think I didn't do my job if I never hear "I hate you" from my son.
I do "get it". It's not about not using dicipline on your child at all...it's about doing it properly....spanking is a quick fix, and not a fix at all really. Numerous studies have shown it leads to aggression, confusion, and a lack of security....I'm all set. I love my child far to much to ever hit him.
Call me crazy, but I don't care if my toddler acting like a toodler annoys you.
Ok, there's MY vent about yours and others who posts pro-spanking posts. There was a post titled "What ever happened to spanking" on this site a while back....look into it if you can for more reasons to NOT HIT your children.
Yikes. |
| posted by on 01/09/2009 02:51 PM
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Oh, and just in case Dr. Sears' words mean nothing to you....here's what THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIACTRICS" (meaning your pediatrician will agree with this as well...trust your pedi?) states:
The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that if punishment is needed, alternatives to spanking should be used.
Although most Americans were spanked as children, we now know that it has several important side effects.
It may seem to work at the moment, but it is no more effective in changing behavior than a time-out.
Spanking increases children's aggression and anger instead of teaching responsibility.
Parents may intend to stay calm but often do not, and regret their actions later.
Because most parents do not want to spank, they are less likely to be consistent.
Spanking makes other consequences less effective, such as those used at child care or school. Gradually, even spanking loses its impact.
Spanking can lead to physical struggles and even escalate to the point of harming the child.
Children who continue to be spanked are more likely to be depressed, use alcohol, have more anger, hit their own children, approve of and hit their spouses, and engage in crime and violence as adults.
These results make sense since spanking teaches the child that causing others pain is justified to control them—even with those they love.
If you are having trouble disciplining your child or need more information on alternatives to spanking, talk with your pediatrician.
Ok that's all.
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| posted by on 01/09/2009 03:12 PM
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| I believe in spanking as one form of discipline, however do not look forward to ever having to do it. I see it as a "last resort." I think the important thing to remember is there is a HUGE difference between Spanking, Hitting & Beating a child. My Best Friend's daughter is a teenager now and was never spanked. She is one of the nicest most respectful girls I've ever met. Her little sister of 3 years, however has done things that has made her mother spank her. She is a good little girl, too, but that just goes to show all kids are different and one form of discipline doesnt work for all children. I've seen many children who arent spanked hit other children, so where do they learn this from then? I think the word "Hate" is a very strong word and will not allow my daughter to use it soo loosely, especially when referring to me, her father or anyone else in her family that loves her. This whether I have to ever spank her or not. About two weeks ago, my daughter's dad and I were watching "Nanny 911" and if you've seen the children on there, you'll understand. One of the kids was yelling, hit his sister then turned around and hit his mom. My daughter's dad said "Hell no! I would have beat his ass!" I told him, "Well, let's see what Joe Joe has to say about it. The point of watching this is to learn other alternatives to spanking" In the end, Joe Joe's (the nanny) approach worked and no spanking was needed. I know growing up if I had gotten caught stealing or something like that, I would have literally been beaten by either one of my parents. Sometimes that fear is not such a bad thing as it kept me from ever shoplifiting or anything like that. |
| posted by April on 01/09/2009 03:23 PM
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i have to say that on this one i agree with Lauren. my daughter is 15 months, and she learned to walk when she was 9 months. which means that was when she started getting into things. she climbed everything! and she had a tendency to bite as well. ididnt know what else to do, i thought she was too young for timeout, so even though i never wanted to spank, thats what i did. it seemed to work for a few minutes, but then she would climb right back up on to whatever i just took her off of. then a few weeks or so after i started spanking her, she was playing with my mom. she got mad at her for some reason (who knows why little kids get frustrated half the time, right?). but she smacked her across the face! i could not believe that my daughter had actually hit my mom just because she was alittle mad about something.... but then again, wasnt that what i was teaching her? i have not spanked her once since then. i dont want her to learn that it is okay to hit just because you are mad. we use time outs now. i put her in her playpen for one minute, and i always explain why she was in there, and when her timeout is over, i take her out and tell her that what she was wrong and dangerous and thats why we dont do it. then i tell her i love her, and she gives me a kiss.
after a few weeks of doing that, she has stopped. i havent had to use timeout for 3 weeks now i think. and timeouts were much more effective, after spanking her, she would go back to doing whatever she was doing before. but with timeout, she didnt.
now if you feel that spanking is right for you, go right ahead and do it. but i wont do it ever again. i know the outcome of each, and i would rather have a daughter who doesnt think it is okay to lash out when she gets mad. |
| posted by Becky on 01/09/2009 03:26 PM
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| Hi April - I agree with some of your post, but don't kid yourself...just because the words are different, the outcome isn't. Striking/hitting/spanking/swatting....all the same. Spanking is wrong. I guess I'm not as nice about my opinion here as Becky. BTW Becky, your new approach of time out, then explain and give love is right on! :) |
| posted by on 01/09/2009 03:37 PM
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| So do you believe swatting a child on the behind is the same as slapping them accross the face? I would never slap my daughter across the face, but I would smack her hand or her behind. I would never use a belt or any other object to "hit" her. That is why I believe there is a HUGE difference between striking, hitting, spanking, swatting, beating, etc. I personally don't plan to make spanking my form of discipline, however I wont say I'll never do it. |
| posted by April on 01/09/2009 03:47 PM
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| I believe that causing any form of pain to a child as a form of discipline is wrong. Yes, there's a difference between a punch in the face and a slap on the hand, but both are causing pain to discipline, and this is what my issue is with. |
| posted by on 01/09/2009 03:56 PM
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I understand. Parenting is just hard no matter which way you choose to go on this issue. I think it would hurt me more to ever have to spank my child than the actual physical pain it would cause her, but in my opinion, that comes with being a parent. It hurt me to have her, it will hurt me to discipline her (Even if I'm just doing the time out thing, as I know when your child cries, it breaks your heart, right? Most children cry while in time out, making the parent just want to go pick them up and console them).
My nephew ran out to the sidewalk once. His mom ran after him and spanked him explaining he's never to run outside by himself, EVER. I remember thinking "someone ought to spank your ass for leaving the door unlocked" (ha ha - I was upset) But serioulsy, you cant have your eyes on your kids every second, especially when you have more than one. So, she explained if he ever went outside alone again she was going to hit him a lot harder. He never did that again. Would a time out have worked as effectively? Maybe, but I think the "fear" she installed in him stood with him & therefore he never did it again. |
| posted by April on 01/09/2009 04:05 PM
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I'm not saying that spanking is the ONLY way I'm just saying that if you've tried the other ways and it doesn't work then spanking will. Now some kids don't respond to spanking, some kids don't respond to the other ways. What I see alot of is parents having their kids act up and them just say 'oh sweety don't do that' or something along those lines. Alot of parents are stern, they aren't consistant....they basicly let their kids be the boss...and thats wrong.
All the drs in the world could tell me that spanking was wrong and I would just ignore it, yes I trust my sons dr and with anything else I would listen to her but with the way I raise my child is my business.
I was spanked, put in time out, grounded, had things taken away but really the spankings worked the best. My Grandmother use to make us go pick a 'swich'(small limb off a bush or tree) and tell us we were going to get a spanking with that but really just going to pick the swich was the most painful part, she never did spank us. I think in total I was spanked maybe 4 times total my whole life cause I knew that if I did whatever to get into trouble then I was either gonna get grounded or something taken away or spanked and I didn't want that so I would try not to do anything to get into trouble.
And when I 'say that if you don't hear "I HATE YOU" or "YOU'RE NOT FAIR" then you didn't do your job' I didn't mean it just like that I mean that if your child has NEVER been mad at you for you telling them no or them not getting something or getting to do something they wanted THEN you didn't do your job right. EVERY child at some point is going to be mad at you and maybe say they hate/dislike you and so on BUT when they grow up and have kids of their own they will understand and love you for it. |
| posted by Amers on 01/09/2009 04:12 PM
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you're so right April- it is hard! Hard and wonderful at the same time, right?
you know, I used to feel the same way your nephew's mom does...I thought I'd spank only in an emergency, to invoke fear if my child was in danger, in hopes of preventing the behavior ever again. This was before I did all the research on discipline and spanking. (I was home FT for the better half of my pregnancy so I did a ton of reading). I found that a firm voice and a good explanation works...here's an example. My son is 2...I want him to stay sleeping in his crib as long as possible because I know he's safe there. Around 1 1/2, I heard a loud THUD and found my son out of the crib, on the floor with the devil in his eye (so hard not to laugh). Now, one might spank in this situation (and I have friends that have) and say "never climb out of your bed", etc.....BUT, as we've all learned, I'm not a spanker, so I went, in, gasped, got down to his level, held his hands, and in a firm voice I said....NO, we do not climb out of our crib...it's dangerous!!!! He wimpered just a little, then I put him back in his crib. He's never done that again. He'll be 2 1/2 in Febuary and we hope to shop for a big boy bed shortly after that. My point is that words and emotion work just as well in a situation like that...better actually.
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| posted by on 01/09/2009 04:19 PM
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"All the drs in the world could tell me that spanking was wrong and I would just ignore it"
WOW. |
| posted by on 01/09/2009 04:21 PM
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| Lauren I can tell you are SOOOO 'open minded' All I wanted to do was vent I didn't need you coming on here telling me how wrong I am. Go ahead raise your child the way you want to but don't you dare go trying to push things on other people |
| posted by Amers on 01/09/2009 04:34 PM
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| Oh yes, I TOTALLY agree that a stern voice is more than enough to get your child to listen. ESPECIALLY when they are that age. I used to do that w/ my nieces & nephews when needed. I find that like your son, when I've had to use a strong voice, they will do that thing w/ their bottom lip & wimper. (Mind you my house isnt child proof as I didnt have kids there before, so I had to keep them out of the kitchen sink cabinets and such). I think Amers was referring to those parents who dont use a stern voice or look. I know you've seen them, too. At the market and such. "No Jane, don't hit mommy sweetie, she doesnt like that" while Jane keeps doing it over and over and looks like she's 7! Seriously, I feel sorry for these kids because in the long wrong they'll suffer when they find out in the real world you just cant do what you want. |
| posted by April on 01/09/2009 04:55 PM
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i think everyone makes a good point. and honestly you will parent the way you want to no matter what someone else says right? so its not worth it to argue. however i was brought up with fear and my fiancee frequently says things about scaring her into doing things. and i hate that. i my mom and dad were completly different in disipline. my mom took us aside and talked to us, or used a stern voice when needed. my dad hit, or used fear. I know that i dont want my daughter to be my friend, i want to be her parent. but i also dont want her to be afraid of me. all i can hope for is that i can get through this without messing her up too much, lol. i will still try to do things without hitting, or without scaring her. i can tell her that something is dangerous, and that you have to be careful, or that what she did was wrong and she shouldnt do that again. but i can do that without making her afraid of me.
i like your example too Lauren, about your son climbing out of his crib. and April i think your thought was hilarious (someone should smack your ass for leaving the door open) that was a good point. but i think that telling him she would hit him harder was not neccessary. i think just explaining that it was dangerous to run outside, and that he could have gotten hurt, and then keeping the door locked (like you said) would have been plenty.
and the part about the 7 year old at the grocery store... those parents obviously didnt have any sort of disipline in place to begin with. so maybe spanking shouldnt be a starting point for them.
either way, every parent is going to do things differently, and thats why we are all so different isnt it? its not always right, but whatever works i guess. |
| posted by Becky on 01/09/2009 05:50 PM
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ok.... I am not an Anit-Spanking mom but I am not a mom who thinks spanking is the answer... My son (ow 30 months) was not listening to basic things... pushing kids off the ladders at parks when the child was reaching the top of the platform, throwing toys, etc... we will say full blown terrible twos... anyway, days came when frustrations et in and I spanked... did nothing.. gave a sting for 2 minutes and right when the sting left the flesh the idea of why spanking occurred went right out the door.... eventually it got to the point where i couldnt not stand to be around my son.. God forgive me!!!.. So we spoke to the pediatrician... She notied my sons is smart but undisciplined.. told me to take control now or he will break us.. hibby and me.. so she recommended a book called sos help for parents by lynn clark... I bough thte book and read it.... followed the time out as discipline and beleive it or not it works....I knwo longer have a problem with my son on the majority of times but there are still times where he becomes defiant.... the point... Spanking Dont work.. simple and easy.. Lets be honest ladies the only way you will get a child to really know what is wrong or right is be constantly reminding them what they did.. if you spank all the time the message goes out the other side of their heads.. Only thing they will remember is mommy hurt them but never really know why.. So, as a mother who once spanked I say it doesnt work as much as structured time out......
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| posted by ellen on 01/09/2009 08:56 PM
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| you spanked once so really you can't really say that it didn't work since you did it once....I NEVER said that spanking worked for every kid, time outs work for some and so on EVERY kid is different. I didn't post this just to get people to argue I posted this cause I wanted to vent....this is what this group is about right? to vent? I mean it is the name of the group |
| posted by Amers on 01/09/2009 09:51 PM
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Oooh... spicy topic.... How about we agree to meetup here 18 years from now and see whose methods worked best? Lol
Happy Parenting Everyone! |
| posted by Candice on 01/09/2009 11:18 PM
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Lmao!!
good idea Candice! i am game.
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| posted by Becky on 01/09/2009 11:49 PM
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I spank, and I have several things to add for thought.
1) You should never spank your child to cause harm. The point in spanking them is to startle them or scare them. Get their attention.
2) I will cause pain to my child by spanking his butt if he was to run out in the street. You better beleive that he will feel it from me and he will think again before doing it again. That is so worth it to me if it stops him from doing it again and getting hit by a car. Or another example a cord or outlet. You can cover them and what not, but you just never know. With something like that I have told him NO very stern, and it has worked, but if he continued to go back to it, I would spank. We are talking about his life here.
3) My brother is a cop, and his exact words, and I quote, "I wish people would just get it, if they don't spank and teach their kids respect and right from wrong, I am the one dealing with them later in life. He has been a cop for 14 years, so he has actually seen and dealt with kids like what the very first post was talking about as they grew up. In trouble from a young age and still in trouble.
4) The bible says to spare the rod and spoil the child. It also says beat your child it will not kill them. This is Proverbs 23:13-14 I quote from the King James Bible, "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."
So there that is my thoughts. And I also agree that spanking is a last resort. If I keep telling my son no or he is slapping or bitting. I will spank him. But I also agree with no matter what is said everyone is going to raise their child they way they see fit. So I am not trying to change anyone's mind. Just voicing my opions. |
| posted by Kim on 01/10/2009 03:23 AM
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I can't even believe what I'm reading. I'm done. I'm quite open minded about a multitude of topics...just not this....go on with your spanking, and I'll just feel bad for the spanked. Also, when you post a post warning that I may be offended, I take interest...BTW, when you're "venting" about how you feel other's children's should be spanked, you bet I'm going to comment. And also, I'm well-read on anti-spanking so if my post with medical back-up could possibly prevent another Mom reading from spanking, I'm fine with offending you...it's worth it.
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| posted by on 01/10/2009 08:43 AM
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| How would you like if someone five times the size of you hit you?? Maybe it should happen and you might reconsider hitting your child. Children who are spanked act worse than children who are not spanked. So how does spaking a child help???? |
| posted by Jennifer on 01/10/2009 09:34 PM
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| my comment is this; spanking is the easy way to discipline and everyone knows it. just spank your kid let them cry and then you go on with your business as usual. but to do it the right way takes a lot of time and effort. you have to get inside your child's mind and TALK to him or her talk with him and compromise and talk a way a therapist would to you. this is what i have read in all of my mommy books. |
| posted by Britney on 01/10/2009 10:08 PM
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| I would also like to make clear that when I talk about spanking my child, I am talking about a pop on the butt. I am not talking about how most of us were spanked. My son is way way to young. I would not turn him over my knee and actually spank him. Again I am talking about a little pop on the butt to get his attention. |
| posted by Kim on 01/10/2009 10:59 PM
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Spanking worked for me. Under 5 I think you can get away with other methods, but there comes a point when a child WILL test your authority. I know I had stages where time outs and taking things away didn't help. I had a smart mouth growing up. NOW I DO NOT! & it was because of spanking. I probably got 5 my entire life... my last one was at age 12. I kept talking smart to my parents! It was a last resort, I knew it would be a punishment, and I learned to hold my tongue. (Now everyone thinks I'm an angelic young woman ;) and my husband has never been offended by my words) If used responsibly and reasonably at an age where your child can have a conversation with you about what has happened and certain consequences I feel its neccessary for some. I think thats where the cop comment comes in. Some parents (we all know them) let there kids take things too far. If you don't correct it while they are young, they are havoc later in life. Violence comes in when you spank too young and then the child relates getting angry to hitting. But using discipline to instill respect for authority and to prevent dangerous situations should not be frowned upon. It's my job to teach my kids to do what they are told. Our Heavenly Father corrects us. Unfortunately the cost of sin is death... so He gives us all these consequences for wrong actions in hopes that we will correct our behavior. Please don't take that last statement to the extreme!!! But its in the best interest of your child when they do hit that elementary age and know you mean business, and nos, tones of voices, and timeouts don't work... its better to punish them with a swat on the hand or whopping to know Mom & Dad mean business then to let them continue their bad behavior and then we end up with adults who can't follow authority and have childish like behavior (we all have them in our families, at work, as neighbors!) you know what I'm talking about!!! But its not for every kid. I don't think this is a black & white issue. There is definitely gray on both the parenting style and child's personality. That's my little 2 cents...
But we'll see if I'm right in 18 years ;) Pray for me! |
| posted by Candice on 01/10/2009 11:55 PM
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| I totally agree with you Candice. Spanking is not for every child, or every situation. You have to look at each situation. I don't really care if people are upset with me for poping my son on his butt or not. I know what is going on in my home. I know that I love my son and would never hurt him. And I also know that he loves me. |
| posted by Kim on 01/11/2009 12:33 AM
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| All you can do is your best and if you do it with love, when your then-adult now-kid grows up, they'll know everything mom and dad did, even if they agree or not, was out of love and with good intentions. That's my hope when my parenting years are over (even though they never truly will end) but that's how I feel about my parents. I truly believe there is enough grace to cover our parenting mistakes, its when people take it to the extreme i.e. beat their kid for being a kid, that spanking as a discipline choice gets a bad rep... okay, that was 3 more cents.... I'm done now! STICK A FORK IN IT.... :) |
| posted by Candice on 01/11/2009 12:52 AM
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| I believe that spanking a child younger than five is a little extreme. But, if it is a pop in the butt than there is nothing wrong with that. I also believe that spanking is the last resort. |
| posted by Monica on 01/11/2009 07:37 PM
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A book I read had an interesting point. If you spank your child for running into the street does that mean you will leave them unsupervised near the street having confidence they wont do it again? I don't think anyone can answer yes. So if it's not giving you any better of an outcome than non-spanking discipline how is it more effective?
My views, and not everyone will agree is by spanking you are teaching your child that I am bigger than you and I can hit you. When your child turns around and hits you think about where he/she learned it.
A great book for parents to read is "How to behave so your preschooler will too" I'm a strong believer that a child's behavior is a direct reflection of how he's parented.
I know that none of you want to be judged for spanking your children, so how can you judge those that don't spank and insinuate that we all have bratty kids.
I am not trying to be my children's best friend. I parent them, I discipline them... discipline doesn't mean to punish, it means to teach. |
| posted by Tracie on 01/11/2009 10:05 PM
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| Tracie, I will have to say that is a good point about running out in the street. Also, I am speaking for myself, of course I don't know about the other ladies, but I don't really judge anyone for not spanking. Now if I see a child that needs to be spanked, like hitting his mother, we all have seen them in the stores, then I will judge. But I don't judge you or anyone else on here that says they don't spank. I agree that not every child needs to be spanked. Every child is different and what you can tell one child another may not get it. So without knowing you and your child I would not judge. When I replied to this post I was referring to those kids you see rolling around on the floor of some store screaming and kicking and slapping his mother. Those are the kids out of hand and need to be delt with in one form or another. |
| posted by Kim on 01/12/2009 01:26 AM
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| I think its best to agree to disagree. This is one of those topics that doesnt have one right or wrong answer. I'm sure there are bratty kids that have been spanked as there are those who havent been. Disciplining your child is hard, no matter what method you choose, but I have to say I would spank mine if I thought it was necessary. Someone said something about someone 5 times larger than me hitting me & how I would like it. Ah, yeah, it happened as I was spanked as a child & in no way shape or form do I see it as my parents being mean, violent or bullies. Again, I strongly believe there's a huge difference between hitting, beating & spanking. Someone else mentioned something about elementery school aged children & discipline. I totally agree there's an age where a time out is just not enough anymore. Maybe groundings or other punishments would work, but there is a such thing as a punishment fitting the crime. Depending on what my daughter does, will determine her punishment. If I can ground her and that works, great! But what about something like bullying a child at school? Stealing? Calling me out of my name &/or hitting me? Trashing someone's personal property? There are certaint things I think "deserve" a good a$$ whopping. With that said, I've seen parents spank their kids in situations where I think a simple "warning" would have been enough. |
| posted by April on 01/12/2009 03:37 PM
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| Exactly April!!! |
| posted by Kim on 01/13/2009 12:46 AM
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