|
|
| Maybe. Obama is definitely very smart and, I think, has the potential to be the greatest President America has ever had. I just hope Obama's Presidency doesn't end the same way. |
| posted by Indigo Ottyr on 10/27/2008 08:07 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| Speaking of ending the same way, did y'all hear about the plot two men had to assassinate him? I'm not a supporter of Obama, but I pray that nothing so horrendous would happen. Yes there are policies that some people don't agree with, but he has a beautiful wife & 2 daugthers that love him. I don't understand why people think they have to use violence...! |
| posted by Bonnie on 10/27/2008 11:12 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
I don't wish for the same thing to happen either. However, I have to say that if it were to happen Biden would be a great one to step up to the bat and take over. I can't say the same about Palin. I believe she is just a gimmick of sorts. I am as of right now a supporter of Obama/Biden. Should McCain/Palin take the preseidency I think that this country that has suffered a great deal will just suffer even more than before. It will get worse before it gets better. However, I will take worse with a better out look over worse with a bland out look.
I do think that Obama/Biden just might be the Kennedy/Johnson of our generation. I also think that with Biden by his side Obama could do great things for us. |
| posted by Carrie on 10/28/2008 08:26 AM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Can I ask you guys a question? It seems as if you blame Bush for all of the problems in this country. Is that the case? Because Yes his spending is very high, but you all seem to forget the last four years was a democratic congress that has put spending out of control and they caused this crisis on wall street by creating fanny mac and freddy mae to give loans to people who could not afford it and inturn forcing other bank in the main stream that normally would not do that to do it just to stay in the competition and survive.
Most of policy is the congresses doing not the presidents so I hope you guys will also look at that. I am not trying to offend anyone just trying to give some food for thought |
| posted by Jessica on 10/28/2008 09:57 AM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
People being fired for saying the wrong thing is worlds away from chipping away at the Constitution like Bush and friends have been doing. When someone is told at work what they can and cannot say, that is not Constitutionally determined, rather it is regulated by the business in the interests of keeping profits up. Personally, I'm more likely to shop somewhere that says "happy holidays" than "merry Christmas" since I'm not Christian and only marginally celebrate Christmas as a national, secular holiday. "Happy holidays" is more inclusive and would include my primary winter holiday of Yule as well.
If you want to worry about losing your rights under the Constitution, look at one of Bush's little pets known as the Patriot Act. Fact of the matter is that modern Republicans seem to say "f--- the Constitution...we don't need that nasty ol' piece of paper messin' with what we want to do" far more than Democrats. I am neither a Republican or Democrat, but I worry far more about losing my First and Fourth Amendment rights than Second. |
| posted by Indigo Ottyr on 10/28/2008 12:09 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Oh, and the Democrats have only had control of Congress for the last 2 years, not 4. And Democrats may spend a lot, but they didn't come up with a war that has cost $566,345,796,153 (as of 12:15 eastern time today) and serves our country no real purpose and was based on lies and misinformation.
Just some "food for thought." |
| posted by Indigo Ottyr on 10/28/2008 12:16 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| I do believe only congress can declare war, not the president. I wonder how all the troops would feel about saying this is a useless war. I certainly don't want to think that the friends of mine who have died over there have done it for nothing, and I'm sure their families would agree. |
| posted by Bonnie on 10/28/2008 12:49 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Ok ladies. The 'white house/congress' is more of a team and when one person fails then the whole team fails. However, the brunt of the failing goes onto one person, a 'leader/rep'. So the way that I see it is that it's not just Bush but the whole dang white house that has failed. I personally don't just blame the republicans or democrates. I blame the whole dang white house and congress.
For the war that we are in. Well, I don't oppose war. I oppose blowing up a country and then wasting money to make them the shadow of us. Don't you think that makes us a little hipocritical? I mean, come on now. Is that the type of country we want to be? I know I don't. I love the good ol' US of A. But I really am dissapointed in how we have been ran for a while.
For the constitution, don't change it in any ways. We have a more modern world then what we did when it was once written. But we should honor what was founded and not what we now think things should be.
I am not a democrate or a republican. But as of right now I really am not fond of the republicans that have been in charge of our once successful country. |
| posted by Carrie on 10/28/2008 12:58 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
You are correct that Congress has to declare war, however, it can effectively be argued that the Iraq war was something Bush pushed for and since there was a Republican majority in Congress at the time, he got what he wanted.
It is interesting to note that troops in Iraq have donated SIX TIMES as much to Obama as McCain. Kind of makes you think they don't think we should be over there either, doesn't it? |
| posted by Indigo Ottyr on 10/28/2008 01:00 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| Indigo, I do see your point of view. But I guess the troops over there have two points of view as well. I do believe we need to start getting a plan together to start pulling out troops, and I do believe we need to start taking care of our very own country instead of always worrying about the other guy. However, I don't want to say that the war has been a waste because that would be all of those brave soldiers died in vain. |
| posted by Bonnie on 10/28/2008 01:23 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Thank you for pointing out my small mistake yes it has been 2yrs of Democratic congress, however the point I was trying to make is simply that it is not all George Bush's fault.
Secondly to Indigo, I am not christian as well, all I am saying is that we should be aloud to say what ever saying our religion allows for with out worrying about offending someone, so what if your not the same religion it is just a nice senitment. And YES Freedom of speech is a constitutional right. I get that Businesses regulate their own stuff... But sorry the constitution trumps businesses thoughts or ideas about things. |
| posted by Jessica on 10/28/2008 01:55 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Since there seems to be some confusion over what the Constitution does and does not regulate, here is the actual text of the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Businesses are their own entity and can regulate what their employees say and can't say on the job. The First Amendment only speaks to what the Congress can't regulate. |
| posted by Indigo Ottyr on 10/28/2008 02:21 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| Although the Democrats have had control over the last 2 years, President Bush didn't Veto anything. Also, no one could force Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac to loan money so I dont know how this could be blamed on Congress |
| posted by April on 10/28/2008 03:12 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Well since this is talking about the Bill of Rights.... Obama wants to change it. Democrats are for Gov. control Republicans are the ones that want less Gov. control. He wants to change the 2nd Amendment and the UN is pushing it. If he does become president and takes away that right from americans then we are all screwed. Biden is the one who wrote the 94 crime bill that was supposed to put 100,000 police officers on the streets across the US and also ban guns. Well it banned semi-automatic weapons but it did not put the cops on the streets and crimes went up.
Just look at Chicago. Obama banned guns there Last week a woman got shot on a bus and look at what just happened to Jennifer Hudson's family. Law abiding citizens shouldn't be punished. The criminals will always have the guns they aren't going to hand them over, they think hey we are most likely going to be able to do more robberies/rapes/murders since people will have no right to protect themselves so crime goes up. Just like Washington DC. Hitler did the same thing told everyone to get rid of their guns and that the military will protect them but he turned around and killed all the "types" of people he didn't approve of.... I am not a Mccain fan either out of the choices on the ballot I like Bob Barr but all in all I liked Ron Paul or John Edwards it is going to be a disaster anyway it goes. I just worry for my kids
We won't be able to pull out of the war as fast as everyone would like and I believe Obama admitted that recently.
He does have good qualities but I think the insurance package he wants to put into affect it's just more taxes we have to pay.
I just think it is more in the way of socialism |
| posted by Kristhal on 10/28/2008 03:21 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
I'm a democrat and will be voting for Obama but I do not agree with him trying to ban fire arms. Then again I dont think we'll ever fully agree with the person we vote for. I guess it's just a matter of voting for the "lessor of two evils" I think comparing any new policy to those of Hitler is a bit extreme, though.
|
| posted by April on 10/28/2008 03:32 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Indigo
Let me get this straight your saying the 1st ammendment doesn't apply to me and I don't have a right to freedom of speech that only the congress can't tell me what to say or do.. I'm sorry but that sentimentand interpretation is just wrong in so many ways. I understand businesses do regulate things, and they want to be politically correct, but sorry being politically correct is going to be the demise of this country. I agree with Kristhal in every way and I will fight socialism in every way. As for the war my husband fought in Iraq for 1 1/2years and no one and i mean no one can tell me that what he was fighthing for was worthless. He and so many other soldiers believe in what they are doing. I don't know where some of you are getting your info but have any of you actually asked a soldier that served how they feel Lastly anyone who tries to take my guns will have to kill me first. I have a right to defend my self and my family and no one is going to take my defenses away. this is going to be my last post on this subject. I don't want to really offend anyone and I can get very passionate about how I feel when it comes to the war and politics....Go McCain/Palin Country First |
| posted by Jessica on 10/28/2008 03:39 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
It was just an observation since we were comparing to past leaders i.e. Kennedy.
I just went a few years further. I do think we will never agree with all they say.
Personally I just hope that the next 4 years get a bit better the economy can't be fixed over night and I wish we could pull our troops out in a weeks time but in reality to clean up this mess we are in will take a while regardless of whom we have as a leader. |
| posted by Kristhal on 10/28/2008 03:43 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| Jessica I understand your view on the war I have had close friends and my BIL there and or are there. They believe in what they are fighting for and my Mom just lost her boyfriend 3 weeks ago there. I wish at times we were done with it all so we don't have to lose anymore of our soldiers. A friend of mine is convinced that if Mccain gets voted in there will be a draft and she doesn't want her son to go... She is a little extreme I think. And I agree with you there will be a fight if they think they are taking away my right to protect myself. |
| posted by Kristhal on 10/28/2008 04:03 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
I don't have time for a long post right now, so I'll just through the main points I'm under attack.
Jessica, you can say what you want because Congress can not pass a law that impedes that. However, if you are at a business or any sort of private property and they have a policy that says you cannot say certain things, racist slurs for example, they are within their rights to kick you out if you violate their policy. Just like you can kick someone out of your house if they something you don't like.
Every solider that I've talked to has said that we need to have left Iraq already. It was all well and good to get rid of Saddam Hussein, but we wore out our welcome and there is no reason for us still to be there.
With regards to Obama and gun control, he believes it should be up to states and local governments so he does not want to change the Constitution to get rid of the Second Amendment. However, your girl Sarah Palin DOES want to change the Constitution to legislate love. |
| posted by Indigo Ottyr on 10/28/2008 04:48 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Ok I said it would be my last post but got to respond to the attack on sarah palin. First of all yes she is my girl ....and yes she wants to abolish abortion. I think her stance is little over the top because she is against it completely with one exception the mother's life, I always included rape and incest. But Indigo please there is a big difference between MURDER as a form of birth control and self defense.
As for the war I never said all soldiers were for the war, but everyone I have ever met believe in what they are doing.. No one is for war but sometimes it is necessary. And this is the last thing I'm saying about the war, because I'm going wind up getting nasty because I get emotional and I don't want to do that |
| posted by Jessica on 10/29/2008 10:35 AM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
There is a difference between being against abortion and be against the freedom of others to decide.
Republicans don't want big government but they are fine with letting the government regulating the most intimate decision of their life.
With regard to the war. Has anyone told these soldiers that there never been an exit strategy and it is been only about controlling the oil?
The only way that people will feel concern about this war is if there is a draft just like during the Vietnam war.
It is time for America to wake up from their naivete.
J. |
| posted by Juliet on 10/29/2008 12:40 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| I wasn't talking about abortion. I was referring to her stance that she would like to see a Constitutional amendment against gay marriage. |
| posted by Indigo Ottyr on 10/29/2008 01:47 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
I havent read all the postings closely, so forgive me if I missed this.
Yes, Democrats in congress went along with the vote for the Iraq war. Personally I believe this is one of the main reasons Hillary is not the nominee, but that is a whole different discussion. I also believe that even though I am a democrat, when my president told me we were in "imminent danger" I listened to him. I was never in favor of any wars, but I supported my president, as I thought I was being a good American. Fast forward.... it turns out he lied, yes lied, period. We invaded a sovereign nation. We may not have liked or agreed with Sadaam but we (cia) put him there to help us in our struggle against Iran, & gave him most of the weapons he used on his own people. We squandered our resources and our good standing in the world community. That is all there is to say on that.
It always amazes me to see conservatives discuss small government & freedom. Small government only seems to apply to tax money taken from large corporations or wealthy people & used in social programs etc to help people in a "lower" socio-economic status. We attempt to call that "Socialism". It does not apply for some reason to my bedroom, or my doctors office, or my childs classroom. Freedom, it seems only applies to those who 'fit the mold', as in fly the flag, being Christian or Catholic, and especially not being gay.
Do I believe Obama can solve every problem we face in the 21st century? Of course not. But I believe he will assemble the best & the brightest to get around a table & attempt to make things progress honsetly, which is a far cry from what we've had. |
| posted by Angela on 10/30/2008 09:48 AM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Well said Angela.
I must admit one thing though. We all bleed red. Doesn't matter what our color is, or our sexual preference or religious, political stance, or even social stance, we all bleed red. And frankly, not to many people remember that.
I was raised a Christian and raised to be a Democrate. But I don't live by the Bible, nor do I live by a Democrates standards. I live life to the fullest and pretty much careless about most issues IN OTHERS LIVES. That goes along with marriage, abortion, things of that nature. Because what is good for me is not for everyone else.
The way that I see it is that McCain/Palin are just wanting to take rights away from people, change this to make it more deffined on what is and isn't. Obama/Biden seems to be more about the issues that are really important. Frankly abortion and marriage are not on the top of the list of priorities in my eye. Maybe for others, but I believe our main focus should be on the economy and education, our future. Not what others do with their lives or how they live them.
As for taking away my right to defend my self. Well, ever wonder why not to many people mess with a mother? Because they are crazy when it comes to their family and protecting them. If someone I don't know comes into my home uninvited, hurts my family....better believe I'm getting my shot gun. If someone hurts my kids in a way they shouldn't....they had better pray to whomever the authorities get to them first. Take my right to defend myself away....I really don't think so. I'd like to see them try that one.
Maybe, I should have started a whole different discusion with this. Oh well. |
| posted by Carrie on 10/30/2008 10:01 AM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Thank you Carrie..
I have read many things on Obama and the 2nd amendment. I have heard him tell me (& many others in the crowd) he wont mess with it. With all of the problems that face our country currently, I agree that marriage, abortion & guns seem minimal. It seems like many people want to be single issue voters. I have a teenage son, who has to get on a bus at 6 am to go to a school cross town to get a college prep education in an IB program. They have few books, & not enough helmets for the football team. When I think of all the money spent on the war & what could be done with that it saddens me. I hope Obama is like Kennedy, & takes this inspiration he has created & runs with it. I dont believe he will squander it as has been done in the past.
Carrie, I hope more people take time to think as you do & really vote for the best of the future, & not keep looking to the past... Our children are counting on us! |
| posted by Angela on 10/30/2008 10:28 AM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
you know what i was going to respond to these posts but I am done being bated and defending what I know and believe to be right so I'll just say this and then wash my hands of the whole thing..
I am from Pennsylvania and I guess you all can just explain my insolence away like your precious Obama did... Just tell your selves that I'm just another Pennsylvainian that is a bitter American who clings to her guns and religion!!!! |
| posted by Jessica on 10/30/2008 02:31 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Jessica, Not sure what you mean by baited, I think all of us would welcome a response. As to you're being bitter, that is your own self description. Peace to you honey..
|
| posted by Angela on 10/30/2008 02:43 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| Jessica do you know how many soldiers are coming back from the war literally CRAZY? How many have turned to drugs, committed suicide or murder? How many are wounded and aren't receiving the medical attention they deserve? |
| posted by April on 10/30/2008 03:20 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
so I didn't closely read everything, just skimmed...isn't it funny how politics makes us worse people and more hurtful than normal.
anyway this is my thought process. One man didn't create our economic problems by himself--you guys are a whole lot smarter than that. Two--it doesn't matter who gets to be president (even though I know who I want) it's going to take more than just a president and his policies to get this country out of the problems.
Even if you don't believe in this war, you should support our troops. They are fighting for a cause and if you oppose them then you are making every death in vain.
|
| posted by on 10/30/2008 03:24 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
| Beth~ I agree with you. I support our troops, & I am sorry if anyone thought differently. I do not however support the administration or it's policies that put them there. I feel I am supporting them by wanting them home, safe and sound. |
| posted by Angela on 10/30/2008 05:03 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
I also support our troops. However, when one signs on the dotted line they know at that moment we could go to war at any given time. I do support our toops don't get me wrong there. I don't support the ways that we went to war, the monies we have spent, and I don't support us NOT ending this quickly and getting out.
I don't believe that I ever said that I didn't support our men and women over there. If it came across as that I am sorry. |
| posted by Carrie on 10/30/2008 09:17 PM
| edit | delete |
|
|
|
|
Angela that is not my own self description that is what your buddy Obama said about us who live in pennsylvania.
|
| posted by Jessica on 10/31/2008 10:34 AM
| edit | delete |
|
|
