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| hi amers, i used to be totally against spanking before i had kids, cuz i never got spanked and i turned out pretty good. :) however, i have changed my mind a thousand times since i had kids of my own. it is such a hot topic i don't usually bring it up at all. i don't like spanking but i have given my 3 year old an occasional quick swat on the thigh for hurting his baby brother who is now 18 months. it doesn't seem to really stop him from doing it again even though he doesn't like the swat. i do time outs, also, and that seems to work better when i am consistent. i do get tired sometimes and i just wish all my kids would be good and not have to challenge me and my husband all the time. i've read so many books on discipline and i change my mind often about every technique. i'm all over the place basically so you would not offend me no matter what you say about spanking. :) |
| posted by Stacia on 04/06/2008 05:36 PM
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hey Amers! First of all, congrats on your beautiful little boy! I love being the mom of a boy! Our son just turned 18 months and my husband and I have already had a thorough discussion about spanking and when and how and for what offense spanking will occur. It was a negotiation and also a discussion on our pasts and how our parents reared us and all.
We understand that spanking is not a "cure all" for behavior and that it is widely overused and abused in many homes, therefore many parents think it is not an effective discipline.
We also understand that it is just one of a myriad of levels of discipline and must be handled with tons of grace. We've had counsel that for spanking to be most effective it must be used as a consistent consequence for the same offenses and not in anger and followed up by forgiveness and restitution of the relationship. We also understand that spanking is most effectively used when the child is between the ages of 2 and 6.
For us and our son, (so far), we have decided to use spanking for the following reasons: direct disobedience (meaning we've already warned once that to do said thing is to disobey and that would require a spanking and he does it anyway), lying, and physically hurting people or animals on purpose. So far, we think those are our only three we're going to use spanking as consequence for.
So far, if he touches something I've told him not to touch and he ignores my warnings, he gets a slapped hand. The only things he's really not allowed to touch are things that could hurt him, so that doesn't happen very often and he has remembered very well the next time he comes to it. And very recently he has been warned and swatted on the bottom for slapping mom in the face after being told no a few times. Just yesterday, he reared up to slap me and I told him no, held his arm and said if he hits mommy he's going to get a spanking on the bottom. And do you know what he did? He lowered his arm and hit his bottom...so, I think he's starting to get it! Oh, and he didn't hit mommy either.
Sorry this was so long. I hope it was helpful and encouraging to know that you aren't the only parent out there who want to use spanking responsibly and effectively. Dr. James Dobson is a good author to read on the subject...especially with boys. Another GREAT read is "Grace-Based Parenting" by Dr. Tim Kimmel...I highly recommend it! |
| posted by Kelly on 04/06/2008 08:05 PM
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| I spank my kids but never wanted to cause i was spanked as a kid and hated it i promised myself that i would never spank my kids but i do and sometimes it works cause they don't want to get spanked again |
| posted by judi on 04/06/2008 08:36 PM
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Oh my goodness!!! I just finished writing a completely long and detailed message to you and all of a sudden it was gone!!! Well, I am too tired to re-write it all out this evening (morning) but, depending on the responses that you receive, I may re-write it all!
To summarize....I have 3 boys and it all depends on the circumstances and the child. In MY opinion, it is NOT wrong to spank a child but, there are several things that you MAY want to consider before you decide "to" or "not to" spank your child.
I am too tired to re-write my response this morning but, I will check back in and re-write my opinion when I have had a chance to sleep!!!!! I am soooooo mad cuz I was just finishing when my computer froze up !!!
I will write again "tomorrow"
(later this morning) and try to re-cap what I had stated in my original composition.
No matter what ANYone says....YOU are that child's parent! GOD gave that particular child to you because He knew that you (and your husband, boyfriend, fiancee...WHATEVER!!!!!! would be what YOUR child needed!!!! I promise to complete my message later but, it is just gettint too late. |
| posted by Amy on 04/07/2008 02:45 AM
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| When I was a child, I had parents who would spank me with a black strap. When I became a parent, I read research and books about this. Not only did this kind of discipline leave me with some issues in my life, but the research I found said that children who are hit for discipline, become people who hit others. Children may hit other children because this is what they are taught at home. I have hit my children 2 or 3 times during their whole lives (they are now 5 & 7 years old) but it was because it was a safety issue and they could have injured or killed themselves as a result. Please think hard about this. There are other effective ways to discpline children. |
| posted by Kara on 04/07/2008 08:58 AM
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I find this to be a very interesting discussion! I have an 18 month old daughter, and my husband and I have talked about whether or not to spank several times. She is already challenging us and we are trying to deise our "plan of discipline".
We were both "selectively spanked" as kids. I think that it can be quite effective. My biggest question/concern is one that was touched on briefly and I am really interested to hear from parents who have older kids... Do many of you who never spanked have kids who hit other kids? Those of you who do spank, have you had a lot of issues with your kid hitting others? Although I DEFINATELY see the usefulness of spanking, it seems like a challenge to explain the implied hypocracy that mommy and daddy can hit you but you can't hit anyone... How have you guys approached this? |
| posted by Annemarie on 04/07/2008 09:46 AM
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| I will be honest, I am highly offended that anyone would choose to hit their child. If you did something wrong, nd your hand was slapped by your husband or a police officer, would you be calling a judge? Yes! But a child, whom you are supposed to love and cherish? It doesn't seem right. And anyone who says that they were spanked and turned out fine, go back and relive that moment. You were terrifie of your parent, you did not associate the pain and hurt with your actions but with those who should protect you and love you. Also, kids hit because partly, if you hit them they learn it. You need to show them love and compassion for them to learn it and use it with others. |
| posted by jackie on 04/07/2008 10:13 AM
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| Can we try to have a discussion without anyone feeling like they are in a place to judge other parents? Please????? We are all trying to do what's best for our kids, and NO ONE has ALL of the answers - despite what you may think. |
| posted by Annemarie on 04/07/2008 10:19 AM
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| I just don't understand the justification. |
| posted by jackie on 04/07/2008 10:27 AM
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| Wow, I'm impressed everyone has been so well mannered with this "spanking" issue. :) I just read Jackie's responses and I do struggle with the spanking cuz I figure he's learning hitting is the appropriate response to disagreement or anger. My friend from church had told me we "have to" spank according to a verse in the bible about "the rod" but I just don't like it. I've done it and it never worked with my stepkids so I think I'll stop for now since I don't like it anyway. I don't know how to get my husband on board, though. Believe me, though, I do not judge anyone no matter what they do cuz I know how hard it is to be a parent and we need to support one another in this journey not judge. No one here is "beating" their children. I've dealt with that stuff cuz I was a middle school counselor and I had to call child services when kids were beat real bad or abused. That is not the same as a swat or spanking for disobedience like running in a parking lot. |
| posted by Stacia on 04/07/2008 12:03 PM
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Amy I understand where you are coming from with the computer freezing up on you because it happens to me ALL the time...I hope you got some rest :)
Kelly, thank you for the book recommendations I'll look for those.
I and my husband had this talk about spanking and for what reasons and everything before we even started trying to get pregnant. I wanted to be sure that we were on the same page before any of it even started. There is a very fine line between spanking and beating, a spanking should NEVER happen if the parent is angry because that can lead to somewhere bad in come cases. I believe that a spanking is a last resort and isn't more than 1 or 2 pops on the hand, bottom or leg, NEVER in the face...and always with the hand, never a belt or anything else.
Ok so you say that the child will learn to hit from the spankings, well won't the child also learn how to do the same thing by watching TV or reading books? Are you going to deny your child TV, books, interacting with other kids because they may learn to hit?
....btw I accidentally posted this question twice so there are 2 discussions on it |
| posted by Amers on 04/07/2008 01:16 PM
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I never post to these boards but I am making an exception after reading a few of the comments on spanking. I do believe that every parent is different, as is every child and so they have the right to raise them as they please (to some extent). What I do not understand is how anyone can justify hitting a child because the child hit. You are not teaching them anything by doing this. The may stop at that momet because they don't want to be harmed but in the long run there is no moral lesson here. Spanking may in fact work but know that there are more effective and less harmful ways to discipline your child ( and I feel that if you are spanking your child it's because you haven't bothered to learn one).
I also want to say that another person had posted an anti spanking comment and someone rudely reply that she was being judgemental and I don't appreciate that. Everyone is entitled to their oppion. Just like we have had to listen to why you think it's justifiable to hit your child (even though pediatricians, therapists, child experts, the government and even Supernanny says it's wrong to do so) you should extend the same respect.
Also, why at 4 months old are you even thinking about spanking your child? Cherish the moments you have now. |
| posted by Natasha on 04/07/2008 03:31 PM
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| Every child acts out at some point in their life I'm just thinking ahead, its not like I spank him now he is only 4months. If you had read my posts earlier spanking is a last resort after we've tried everything else |
| posted by Amers on 04/07/2008 05:03 PM
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Hi,
The Bible's verse about "the rod" isn't necessarily referring to physical punishment, but to practicing discipline with your child, which can be done without spanking.
My husband and I were both spanked as children and agreed we would not use spanking when I was pregnant with our oldest child. This has been very challenging for us sometimes because she has definitely acted up, but as long as we think ahead and are prepared with new techniques when our discipline methods start to lose their effectiveness we have managed to keep our now 5 and 2 yr old children pretty well-behaved without it.
The thing that worries us both about spanking is that kids know so well how to infuriate their parents, that unless you are extremely disciplined about the situations when spanking is permitted (as one of the moms above) that your anger can take over way too easily. The problem with spanking is that, unlike time-outs or other forms of discipline, it is possible to escalate the punishment rather than replace it with a more effective form, and it is scary to think that you could allow yourself to hit your child when you are angry, even if it is a moment when discipline is really called for. It's much easier and safer to just to not allow yourself to consider it an option.
I love my children more than myself and would never intentionally hurt them, but there have certainly been moments when I was so angry that I had to remove myself from the situation. If I allowed myself to respond by hitting them rather than giving myself a time-out, I think I would feel really sad about the impact that would have on our relationship, and also on their development as adults. Certainly my husband and I weren't severely abused and are doing well now, but that doesn't mean that we don't wish that our parents could have found a different way to manage our behavior. |
| posted by Cindy on 04/07/2008 06:14 PM
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like I've said before
"There is a very fine line between spanking and beating, a spanking should NEVER happen if the parent is angry because that can lead to somewhere bad in come cases. I believe that a spanking is a last resort and isn't more than 1 or 2 pops on the hand, bottom or leg, NEVER in the face...and always with the hand, never a belt or anything else." |
| posted by Amers on 04/07/2008 06:19 PM
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If you are looking for some good parenting information regarding discipline, check out Proactive Parenting @ http://www.cfcp.info/
This site has information regarding discipline: Responding versus reacting to your child. |
| posted by Stacy on 04/07/2008 07:25 PM
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| I have a 9 month old son & decided way before I ever got pregnant that I would not spank my child. This decision came from raising my dogs. I have never raised a hand to any of my animals, and they have all turned out very well behaved (positive reinforcement was the key here). Now, I completely understand that a human child is different from a dog; but I cannot IMAGINE my son doing something inappropriate and me swatting him. I was spanked when I was little and it NEVER worked on me. Yes, I stopped what I was doing at that moment, but it never changed my long-term behavior. Also, kids are very smart. They learn that you will spank them at home, or at a relatives, but not in public. I agree children need to know that there are consequences for their actions, but don't most of you parents want to know that your child will act appropriately whether you are there to spank him/her or not? I doubt that most parents who choose to spank are cool with other people spanking their child. So if spanking is the only way your child will stop a certain behavior, you must be willing to let other spank your child, right? If there is a flaw in this logic, please, let me know. |
| posted by Allison on 04/07/2008 07:55 PM
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| My daughter is 6 months and a long way off from spanking. But I already know I wont spank her. If you want to that is your choice, but i read a few entries where parents said they will spank if there child uses violence, or hurts another person... well what is it teaching him/her if when they hurt someone, you hurt them. its probably more confusing than anything else. and it is a very short term solution, I think timeouts are smarter. they learn that there is a consequence to their actions, but they are not learning violence. Again, this is just my opinion, everyone has their own, and you should always do what you think is best for your child. |
| posted by Becky on 04/07/2008 09:13 PM
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I think what needs to be pointed out is that there is an appropriate time and way to spank your child - never in anger and never too hard. I realize that "too hard" can be a subjective standard, however, if you are spanking your child and you leave a mark or bruise, consider it way too hard. It should never feel like an outlet of rage or anger and it should never be what many would consider a "beating." There is a vast and very obvious difference between beating and spanking - just as there is a vast and very obvious difference between punishment and discipline. Beating is punishment, spanking is a form of discipline - a tool to teach a child that there are consequences - negative consequences - for wrong actions.
I was spanked as a child and I don't remember these spankings as something where I was defenseless or helpless or even unloved. I learned a lesson each time I remember being spanked, however, I feel the my mom spanked "the right way." She always had a cooling off time, she spanked enough to sting but not leave an impression, and then after, we talked, I apologized for whatever my offense was and she forgave me and said she loved me and was proud of me.
The problem with spanking comes when spanking is the solution and the resolution for everything wrong your child does. The resolution should be what happens after a spanking to help your child apply the consequence to the offense and to help reassure the child that although he did something wrong and was disciplined, he is forgiven and loved. So many parents I've seen and heard of use spanking as the final solution and take no time to reconcile with their children. And many parents make this same mistake with timeouts or grounding as well - using the consequence as the final solution to a wrong done, is NOT effective parenting. Of course, either of these methods done this way will be remembered by any child as something negative. A timeout could be construed negatively, as well - being left alone in your room - abandoned - and helpless. But as long as parents can communicate and help the child to learn from the experience, either form of discipline can be beneficial.
Now, I'm torn about certain timings of spankings. I've decided that until I know that I can spank at appropriate times and reconcile effectively, I will use other methods of discipline. The point of my post, though, is to let people know that although there are many people who have had negative results with spankings (or beatings, possibly), there are just as many, if not more of those who have had a positive experience.
JoAnn, I am sorry to hear of your story and the aftermath of the spanking you received. I can not directly identify with such an offense, but please know, that not all parents who say they spank their children, handle discipline as your father did. Parenting is a matter of choosing battles and disciplining falls in line with that. We all have to choose what we feel is right for our family and for our children. It seems your father may have chosen poorly in that particular instance, but it seems as though you still do have a great deal of affection and respect for him and I think that is something to be grateful for. Breaking a child's spirit is a terrible thing, but I fear breaking their heart is even worse.
Parenting is hard - much harder than any of us expected it to be, I believe. Criticizing each other, though, is not really the way to helping or solving problems or coming up with solutions. I hope you all can appreciate the point of view I've laid here. I do not wish to offend anyone, but rather, help bring understanding to each point of view. Spanking is not right for every family or even for every child within a single family. One child may respond better to timeouts and not at all to spanking and another child in the same family may not respond to timeouts at all. I've said since I became a parent just over a year ago that the only thing that doesn't change about being a parent is CHANGE itself. However, that being said and though our children bring so much change in to our lives with each stage they begin, I think one of the most important things in effective parenting is consistency. Whatever method you choose to discipline and teach your child, do so in love and respect of the human being you are responsible for bringing up and do it with as much consistency as possible. Children respond so much better and behave so much better when they know exactly what they can expect from parents and those in authority.
We are learning and growing as parents, just as our children are learning and growing, and this process is made so much easier by fellow parents and friends going through the same thing who can lend support and advice without judgment. These forums can be such a source of hope and education if we all realize that we have the same goal in mind: to raise independent, productive, successful, loving, caring, and respectful members of society. |
| posted by Stephanie on 04/11/2008 02:17 PM
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My husband and I were talking about ths last night and read all the opinions people wrote. There were alot of people saying if spanking was right or wrong but nobody really gave other options. What are things that you do since you don't spank and what are the things you do before you have to resort to spanking as your last option?
In my opinion spanking is the last option...very last. My daughter (1yr)seems to do well with "time outs" We have a chair thats a swing she doesn't use anymore. When she is being naughty I put her in it for a time out. It works for us because she hates not being able to run around and play so she knows that if she does something bad she is going to the chair and can not play for a little while. |
| posted by Cindy on 04/12/2008 11:11 AM
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| The only time I have used spanking is when the behavior will hurt himself (like running in the road), or someone else. (like swinging a bat around after being told not to) I have spanked my son 3 times in his life....and he is 4 and a half. He has never run into the road again, and this was when he was 2. If you use it to often the punishment is not as effective. My son knows im SERIOUS if he gets spanked! |
| posted by valarie on 04/13/2008 04:27 PM
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