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| I suggest not listening to all the crap you hear in the news. I know it can be nerve racking. But you first child is fine and I would go with that. I have 3 kids myself and none of them have ever had problems with shots. Those type of side effects are rare, don't let it stop you from going for #2. Good luck! |
| posted by Charra on 04/03/2008 01:13 PM
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I would do some of your own research and make a decision. That way you'll have peace of mind in whatever you choose to do. By the way, Jenny McCarthy does not think Autism comes from vaccinating your child. She's not against vaccinations and if you want to look into more of what she researched herself her is the website:
http://www.generationrescue.com
She is against all the crap that's put in them...like aluminum and mercury. And yes, traces of mercury are still in vaccinations even though dr's say there isn't. I did my own research because I wanted to make my own decision. And from what I've found...well, my husband and I are waiting untill our son is 2 years old to start vaccinating. And when he does get vaccinations he will only get one at a time. Example, he won't get the MMR shot but, he will get one for Measles, one for Mumps and one for Ruebella. |
| posted by Karin on 04/03/2008 01:45 PM
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I'm with you Karen. As a parent one cannot just pretend that adverse reactions to vaccines do not exist; research must be done.
I found a scary piece of info from a neurologist named Dr. Russell Blaylock who researches vaccines effects on the brain. The title of the article is "The Danger of Excessive Vaccination During Brain Development" (for those who would like to read the entire article).
This is just an exerpt from the entire article, so it starts a bit abruptly:
Another thing to consider is that the communist Chinese are gradually taking over vaccine manufacturing. In fact, communist China is now the largest vaccine manufacturer in the world. They have over 400 biopharmaceutical companies busy making vaccines and poor quality drugs for the world.
The FDA admits that it inspects only 1.8 percent of the 714 drug firms in China and that, according to a GAO study, FDA inspections may be done 13 years apart (it is spaced 2 years apart in the United States).
Even more frightening is that the inspectors must depend on Chinese translators and US companies purchasing these vaccines and pharmaceuticals must, by agreement, have a Chinese communist official serve as its legal representative.
According to the Phyllis Schafly Report, one CEO was quoted as saying “every piece of information you get (from the Chinese) is suspect.”
With thousands of people dying and getting sick, not only in China, but in hundreds of nations receiving their tainted pharmaceutical products, this means future vaccines will be an even greater danger.
The risk of millions of Americans and others living in the West receiving contaminated vaccines is extremely high. It could even be done on purpose, since the Chinese communist have declared their intention to defeat the United States.
Infecting over a hundred million Americans with contaminated vaccines would be an easy way to defeat us. The irony would be that our public officials would have aided them in our destruction.
Most pediatricians think they are doing what is right, because they too are victims of years of propaganda by elite members in the CDC and American Academy of Pediatrics. Most truly believe what they are telling parents. They should wake up and joint the fight to bring some sense to this insane policy.
**If we are scared to death of lead in our childrens' toys that are made in China, what should we think about our children receiving vaccines made in China?
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| posted by Allison on 04/03/2008 02:33 PM
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| Definitely do research this more. My husband & I decided that my son will get his MMR shots but each one separately to be on the safe side. We made the doctor aware of our desicion. Not every child is not going to react the same way to the MMR shot. |
| posted by GG on 04/03/2008 02:43 PM
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| I never realized the MMR was actually 3 shots (am I right) my son is 3 now so I dont remember it when he got it done. Wow I didnt know u could do them all seperate ..that is a good option ...do all doc do that I wonder.. |
| posted by laura on 04/03/2008 03:12 PM
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Most pediatricians go by the schedule set by the CDC and American Academy of Pediatrics, so multiple vaccinations are usually given at once.
Dr. Donald Miller is a cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery at the University of Washington in Seattle and a member of Doctors for Disaster Preparedness. He calls for a more sensible vaccination schedule.
Many are both scared and confused as they try to make healthier choices for their children, and his guidelines may help you devise a more appropriate vaccination plan for your child – a schedule that takes the best interests of your child into consideration rather than what biased government planners cite as being best for society. His is a far better approach than the "one-size-fits-all" dogma foisted on Americans by the CDC panel.
And, as Dr. Blaylock describes so vividly in this article, there’s plenty of information and knowledge in neuroimmunology (the study of how the brain’s immune system works) that raises serious questions about the wisdom of injecting vaccines in children less than 2 years of age.
As a more sensible, “user-friendly” vaccination schedule, Dr. Miller advises the following:
-No vaccinations until your child is two years old.
-No vaccines that contain thimerosal (mercury).
-No live virus vaccines (which currently includes Measles, Mumps and Rubella).
The following vaccines should be given one at a time (not as a combination vaccine), every six months, beginning at age 2:
*Pertussis (acellular, not whole cell)
* Diphtheria
*Tetanus
*Polio (the Salk vaccine, cultured in human cells)
And that would be pretty much it as far as vaccinations. Your pediatrician will not like this schedule, but if you have reviewed the evidence and still feel your child should be inoculated to a certain degree, this is a far safer alternative to the standard vaccination schedule.
But please, please do review the research and don’t just vaccinate your child simply because your doctor says you “have to.”
-info here from mercola.com
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| posted by Allison on 04/03/2008 03:27 PM
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| The MMR shot is 3 shots in 1 & a lot of people b'lieve that's the reason why some babies react to it. If you decide that you want them separated then you have to let your doctor know. Your doctor should be okay w/your decision b'cause you & your husband are the only two people that have the right to say what shots you want your child to get. If you strongly feel that you want the MMR shots separated & your doctor doesn't approve then maybe you should find another doctor that listen & understands your concerns. |
| posted by GG on 04/03/2008 03:30 PM
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I would have to also say research as much as possible. Most of the chemicals used to create a vaccine cause cancer, and I don't believe that any human would be exposed to so many viruses and bacteria in such a short period of time (or at such a young age). The human body's immune system can't handle all of these things and that is why there are so many adverse reactions. (Just because you don't hear about them in the news everyday doesn't mean that it is very rare)
Karin,
I hope you got a chance to check out the links I posted in another group, they show how many vaccines have been added since 1983. (Coincidence that the autism rate has jumped from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 150??)
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| posted by sillymom on 04/03/2008 09:18 PM
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Yes, I understand how you feel.. My son is now 5 and we did all the shots and he is fine but he had very bad reactions.. He got menighitis when he was a baby after his shots and to this day they are not sure but they think he was overdosed possible on the vaccinations.. so with my dauther who is 2 in a half we have had shots split and have waiting on some and she is fine .. so I agree do your research and you will decide what is best for your family.....
There is so many chemicals and so many things in the shots that I agree there is something going on and it about 10 or 15 years they will say oh by the way we were wrong sorry.. so, it is up to us moms to research and figure out what we should do...
When I told my doctor we were waiting on Hep B . She was so mad at me... She said don't listen to what you read, bu I told her we had done some research and we were waiting for a while she was then nicer to me... Don't just do something for what people say but really look into things like what you are doing...
Our kids will thank us later...
HEIDI
HEIDI |
| posted by heidi on 04/03/2008 10:50 PM
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Everyone has made great points. I just want to point out that you do NOT have to be vaccinated to attend school. It is your decision. We opted to vaccinate our daughters against polio and DTaP. We had many reasons for this decision. We felt that if either of them had most of the other diseases they would in all likelihood not be deadly. Some very uncomfortable for them, but then they would have natural immunity which is always better. it is your decision as parents. NO ONE else has to live with or take care of your desicions. Hope it helps some.
Shanna |
| posted by Shanna on 04/03/2008 10:58 PM
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Hi Helidi
u said u opted out of Hep B vaccine ...I thought that it was the MMR shot we should be weiry of ??
Laura |
| posted by laura on 04/04/2008 07:45 AM
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| You should be wary of ALL the vaccines because of the preservatives mentioned above. The hep B vaccine is insane to give to an infant (unless the mother is diagnosed with hep b and can transmit it to the baby) because the only way to acquire this disease is through exchange of bodily fluids. Basically, the same way one would acquire HIV. Luckily, I had a really cool pediatrician when I had my c-section and opted out for the hep b vaccine based on the reasoning above. He actually laughed and agreed with me that it was a little crazy to hive this vaccine to an infant. |
| posted by Allison on 04/04/2008 05:54 PM
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| One more thing about the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine. This is a 3 in one shot of LIVE viruses. There have been autopsies done on people with autism who have passed away, and the measles virus has been found (living) in the brain and gastrointestinal tract. Not only has the disease been found (the strains from the vaccination), but also mutated versions of the measles have been discovered. What this means is the immune system stays constantly activated trying to get rid of these live viruses. This constant activation is what causes neurological damage and autoimmune disease in predisposed individuals. Our immune system is made to react quickly, get rid of an invader, and turn off. With live viruses, the amount of vaccinations given, and how closely they are given, the immune system never gets a chance to shut off. Thus, unintended damage occurs. |
| posted by Allison on 04/04/2008 06:07 PM
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Ya know your child isn't going to just become autistic just because you get all the shots at once UNLESS the child has that gene.
I would rather my child be autistic than die from one of the things the shots prevent |
| posted by Amers on 04/04/2008 06:42 PM
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Amers,
"Ya know your child isn't going to just become autistic just because you get all the shots at once UNLESS the child has that gene."
I would love to see your scientific data on this. One case has been proven on this, but what about the 5000 others??
"I would rather my child be autistic than die from one of the things the shots prevent"
As for this comment I personally find it offensive, I do not want ANY parent to have an autistic child. I also do not want any child to die from a vaccine when the diseases are very treatable.
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| posted by sillymom on 04/04/2008 09:17 PM
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Sorry to disagree with you, but you do not have to have an 'autistic gene' to display autism-like symptoms. I do agree, that in some cases, one has a genetic predispositon for autism (or is actually born with autism). It is a FACT that mercury (especially ethyl mercury, or thimerisol) and aluminum cross the blood brain barrier very easily and do not leave the brain. Both of these agents are highly toxic to the brain. Case in point...Aluminum is almost always found in the brains of Alzheimers patients. If one looks at the signs and symptoms of Alzheimers they are quite similar to that of autism.
Now in saying all this, I do not believe vaccines are the only culprit in autism (or all neurodegenerative disorders). There are environmental factors (mercury from fish which is called methyl mercury, pesticides, plastics, etc), where one resides and nutrition to name a of few suspects that must be examined.
However, in vaccinations, our infants get the highest concentrated dosages of these toxins.
This next bit of info comes from: Campbell A et al. "Chronic exposure to aluminum in drinking water increases inflammatory parameters selectively in the brain." J Neuroscience Res 2004; 75: 565-572.
Aluminum from vaccines is redistributed to numerous organs including brain, where it accumulates. Each vaccine adds to this tissue level of aluminum. If we calculate the aluminum dose from 36 vaccines, we see that the total dose is 30.6 mg and not the 0.85 mg considered safe by the FDA. Of course not all this aluminum ends up in the tissues, but they will accumulate substantial amounts, especially when added to the amount from foods and drinking water. When a number of aluminum-containing vaccines are given during a single office visit, aluminum blood levels rise rapidly and to much higher levels and this elevation persist for over a month, all the time infiltrating the tissues, including the brain with aluminum.
It is also known that aluminum enhances the toxicity of mercury and that aluminum, even from other sources, increases inflammation in the body.
-So it's not all about genetics. It's about environmental metals/poisons that are entering our children's bodies at an astounding rate, and more often than not, from vaccines.
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| posted by Allison on 04/04/2008 09:26 PM
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Hi, Laura .. WOW !! you did get alot of feedback... Some great feedback... Well, we waited on heb B becuase my husband did not research because his best friend from the fire depart. son has austism and he told us to have the MMR shot broken up for our daughter, our son has already had all of his shots because he is 5 but Ashley is 2 .. He said (his friend) that they push the hep b shot and so many shots and he said that we are not at risk for hep b becuase we are not drug users and other things. So we waited quite a while and we did not do so many shots the first year, we were about a year behind but now she is almost caught up.. We had the MMR broken up and we need one more hep b? we need one more shot but I have to ck her shot card... but anyways to answer your question Yes the MMR one is the main shots that they are linking to austism.. but I agree with what other people are saying also there are so many enviornment factors and other things as well.. My main reasoning for breaking up some of the shots was my son had so many bad reactions and I just did not want that to happen to my daughter so we took our time and she is fine.. Do your research and make the decisions that are best for your family.. I think it is great that you asked for opinions.. I bet you are a great mom!!!!
HEIDI |
| posted by heidi on 04/05/2008 12:21 AM
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Hey Heidi,
I noticed in one of your original posts that you stated your child developed meningitis. I'm sure you're perfectly aware of what this is, but for those who do not know, it is swelling of the meninges (a system of membranes that covers the central nervous system; brain & spinal cord). I'm sure if a neurologist examined your case he/she would not be surprised that this adverse reaction occurred because that is what some of these vaccines and additives do; they invoke an inflammatory response. In your case in went rampant and the meninges was attacked. I'm so sorry that you and your family had to go through this. It sounds like you're on the ball now and doing your research like crazy...good for you. I would never tell anyone not to vaccinate at all (although that has been my choice thus far), but I think it is good that we are all banning together sharing this information so each parent can make an informed decision. |
| posted by Allison on 04/05/2008 12:53 AM
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aLLISON U SEEM TO HAVE ALOT OF MED. INFO. DID U GET YOUR CHILD THEIR SHOTS ??
LAURA
ALSO TO THE WOMAN WHO SEEMES A LIITLE OFFENSIVE WITH ANOTHER POSTERS COMMENT PLEASE NO BASHING ! |
| posted by laura on 04/05/2008 08:24 AM
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Laura,
I was not bashing anyone (sorry if it came out that way), just stating my opinion. We have someone in our family that is autistic and I see how hard it is on the parents and that most people don’t understand it.
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| posted by sillymom on 04/05/2008 09:05 AM
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Hi sillymom
Thxs for the apology I really love that u said that I just want moms to be comfortable in our group is all. Im just curous first off Im sorry u have a famiy memeber w/ autism I can only imagine how HARD IT IS. Does your relaitves feel that the shots did this too there child ??
Laura |
| posted by laura on 04/05/2008 11:29 AM
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thank you Allison for all of your knowledge... we did research after the menig. problems and we could not understand why none of the doctors would link that.. WE did change doctors but still when I think back it was so scary and it would of been nice to of had some of those explanations that you mentioned. You live and learn and research....I was against doing shots with my daughter after what happened to my son but we did some research and my husband and I waited on some things but we are going ahead with certain things.... I was so scared to change Doctors because all of our friends were going where we were. But out of this whole experience it taught me not to do what everybody else does....
Yes, I agree with Laura we are here to help eachother...
I don't think anybody means to be offensive, this topic is so contraversial and alot of people don't what to talk about it....
Let me know if anybody ever wants to chat...
Talk soon, HEIDI |
| posted by heidi on 04/05/2008 11:31 AM
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My research is all the people in the world who have had all the shots before this research started that did NOT become autistic after they had all their shots. I can't find the links right now but I've read in many different places that the kids who end up with it already had the gene deep down(no signs) and the shots just aggravated it and made it come out, like having salt poured in a open wound. I mean there are so many things out there that these shots prevent and people are basicly making already paranoid mothers not want to get their childs shots.
My friend has a 6month old and he has NEVER had any of the shots because she is so scared that he is going to become autistic. I'm scared that he is going to end up getting something that the shots could have prevented and die or end up sick for the rest of his life. I feel that all this scientific bs out there has really screwed up some people(not meaning you or anyone here just people in general) because most of america won't research it, they will take what the media says to heart and deny their kid the shots.
I'm really really sorry if you took offence to my comment here and the comment before but I had to tell my side. I didn't want to start off on a bad note here, because I'd like to make a few friends. I am sorry that one of your family members has a autistic child and I will pray for them and the child. I know it isn't easy for anyone in that position. |
| posted by Amers on 04/05/2008 01:57 PM
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To Laura: I am a physician and this is why I am able to obtain so much info to post on what happens to the immune system once one is vaccinated. I'm a SAHM right now, so it gives me endless time to get online and research (except when my son howling at me). I have not vaccinated my son. I doubt I ever will. For anyone interested, visit the 'varicella', or 'mercury in our babies' vaccines' for some of of the things I do since I am not vaccinating.
To Amers: I'm not sure when you started your research, but I'm going to go ahead and quote one of sillymom's posts above:
"I hope you got a chance to check out the links I posted in another group, they show how many vaccines have been added since 1983. (Coincidence that the autism rate has jumped from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 150??)"
I will have to check my resources, but I believe children used to receive 10 vaccinations, but now receive 36 before entering school.
There is a clear, concomitant rise with autism spectrum disorders and the increasing levels of vaccinations given to children
Additionally, there's a 'which happened first, the chicken or the egg' going on in medical science right now. For those children who are born without autism and develop it later, scientists do not understand if these children had a genetic predisposition for the disorder, or if vaccinations (or other environmental toxins) actually caused the disorder.
I'm going to quote something interesting I wrote on a different post:
"When a kid with peanut allergy eats a peanut and dies, we don't say "his underlying metabolic condition was significantly aggravated to the extent of manifesting as an anaphylactic shock with features of death."
No, we say the peanut killed the poor boy. Remove the peanut from the equation, and he would still be with us today.
I think this same analogy should be used with vaccines. In my opinion, vaccines are going to have to be completely reformulated before this debate ends.
I can't imagine asking my pediatrician what is in the vaccines and her listing off to me: mercury, aluminum, antifreeze, formaldehyde, MSG, live and/or dead viruses, and, oh yeah, some bacterial and/or viral contaminants (just to name a few)...and me saying, "Sounds great, shoot the little guy up."
If you go back to the 'Varicella' debate, one lady asked me what I would do if my child came down with one of the diseases in which society vaccinates for. I took each disease, one by one, and let her know what the current medical treatment protocol is for each one. Believe it or not, in most cases medical intervention is not required when a child contracts one of these diseases because his/her body can get rid of the disease on it's own.
Don't feel scared for your friend who has not vaccinated her child. With autism rates being 1/150, she has every right to be scared sh#tless. This is why this topic so hot right now.
As Heidi stated earlier, her child was vaccinated and ended up with meningitis. She did not mention which series of shots her child received that resulted in meningitis, but the point here is that her child SURVIVED meningitis. Meningitis is one of the diseases we vaccinate for. The point I'm trying to make is that our children will overwhelmingly recover from a childhood disease, but autism (or any of the spectrum disorders) last for a lifetime.
I'm not trying to be hard on you Amers, I just want to give you info about 'the other side' of vaccinations. We've been inundated since birth about the good that vaccines do (and I do agree they have done some good), but something has gone very wrong in the last 20-30 years, and parents are now screaming for a change.
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| posted by Allison on 04/05/2008 02:50 PM
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| My husband’s cousin (her daughter) is autistic. I have never really had a chance to go into a long conversation about with her. They don't live near us so we only see them on holidays and family gatherings. Some of our family can be very nasty with this discussion so I don't usually bring it up. I know that she questions the vaccines,but I don't know if there is a gene in the family. |
| posted by sillymom on 04/05/2008 04:03 PM
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Thxs silly mom !
to those who dont vaccinate how will your child goto school. Here in New Jersey u must be vaccinated ??
Laura |
| posted by laura on 04/05/2008 05:16 PM
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| Just google 'exemptions for vaccinations' and you'll get a whole lot of sites that will give you specific exemptions for certain states. For example, here in Phoenix exemptions include: medical, religious and philosophical beliefs. It looks like in NJ you can claim medical and religious exemptions; but check for yourself. |
| posted by Allison on 04/05/2008 05:26 PM
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Allison is right! You can tell the school that b'cause of your religion you haven't given your son any vaccinations. Our friend’s daughter is Autistic. He & his wife b'lieve that the MMR shot was the cause of it so w/their son they decided not to vaccinate & plan on telling the school when he starts next yr that it’s do their religions beliefs.
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| posted by GG on 04/05/2008 06:26 PM
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In my state (PA) we have religious and medical, but the religious covers personal and ethical reasons. My sister lives in NJ and uses the religious exemption. Her oldest son has had some vaccines (he had bad reactions) and her youngest has had none. Just an FYI no one can question your religion at any time, that would go against our constitution.
Check out www.nvic.org they have links to each state regarding the laws and exemptions. |
| posted by sillymom on 04/05/2008 06:59 PM
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Ok here is my thing i looked up NJ and yeah it does say u dont have to get shots for religious reasons BUT what about school I just signed my son up for preschool in sept. and the info saud the child MUST have all shots and they need a copy of the chart sheet fromthe doc. now I from what i have heard this goes for all school around here. So too those who havent gotten the kids their shots are your kids really young still and u havent looked into schooling or do u know for sure that they will be able to egt into school w/out shots.
also to the mom who has a realitive in NJ where are they from Im from the union county area , did your realitive getthere child into school w/out shots??
THXS |
| posted by laura on 04/06/2008 07:22 AM
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| The exemptions are for school. Pre-schools and daycares that are private can refuse to accept your child, but one that gets government (state or fed) funding can not refuse an exemption. My sis lives in NJ and her oldest who is 5 goes to private school. He has had some vaccines, but with the bad reactions my sister (who is an RN) started looking into them and decided to stop all vaccines. NJ is a tough state, they might try to bully you. I am not sure if the people working for the schools understand that people have the legal right to refuse these things. |
| posted by sillymom on 04/06/2008 08:24 AM
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| wow interecting im surprised that parents dont mind sending there kids too school with un vaccinated children ya know ....that is a little scary i think. |
| posted by laura on 04/06/2008 10:17 AM
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“Wow interesting I’m surprised that parents don’t mind sending there kids too school with un vaccinated children ya know ....that is a little scary I think.”
I hear this all the time and the media likes to use scare tactics to get people to get all vaccines.
Now, viruses and bacteria can infect anyone at any time vaccinated or not. So for someone to say that an un-vaccinated child will spread them is just inaccurate. An un-vaccinated child can catch it they will just fight off the illness differently.
Viruses and bacteria are natural to the earth and they are always there. We don't see too much of them in the US because of better sanitation and healthier diets. We see more of them in poverty stricken countries, because they don't have sanitary living conditions and they are very malnourished. Because of that their bodies can not fight off these things and will usually cause death.
Now here is a thought. How many adults do you know that continue to get all their boosters? Vaccines are not 100% and they do wear off after a few years.
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| posted by sillymom on 04/06/2008 11:42 AM
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| I know i hear it all the time as well maybe that is why I feel that way .....its like how come my sons chart that I got at the hospital when i gave birth says in NJ U MUST BE VACCINATED TO ATTEND SCHOOL. ....it seems like they are threatning me in a way . I dont know honestly I pray that when i get pregnant and by the time my child is supposed to be immunized I hope things will have gotten better |
| posted by laura on 04/06/2008 12:24 PM
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Again, I want to say it your choice as a parent to decide. You have to do what feels right to you. We have selected to get only 2 vaccinations. I do not feel that my child will put anyones at risk at school. I can't remember exactly when, but a couple of years ago there was a Measles and Mumps outbreak out east. The funny part was that half of the cases had been vaccinated agaisnt MMR and the other half had not. Vaccines are not 100% protection. They cause the body's immune specific cells to create a "warrior" to get the virus the next time it is reintroduced to the body. That being said, these "warriors" can grow old and die, some within months if not used/needed. Most viruses that are vaccinated for are not as serious as they once where. Many decades ago, polio ment paralization and measles ment death. We have had many advances with science and medicine. I am not going to vaccinate my child, to hopefully avoid a possible virus. If either of them contract the virus, I will take care of them and then they will have natural immunity, which is life-long (if I am rembering from my infectious disease class).
Here is a link to a recent case. The government is actually giving the family compensation for autism resulting from vaccinations. It is pretty amazing.
http://www.cnn. com/video/ #/video/bestoftv /2008/03/ 07/lkl.autism. vaccine.long. cnn
Also, preschools and daycares must take the waiver if they are licensed to care for children. Most know this around here in MI, but according to everything I have found as long as the state allows the waiver, your child is allowed to go. When I was finishing a class I simply told the daycare, here is the waiver. That was the end of that. Hope this helps...
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| posted by Shanna on 04/06/2008 12:28 PM
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| Just remember everything in this world has side affects. There are side affects to feeding your kids this or that. There are side affects to aspirin. No matter what you decide, if you want your kid to get sick or not. A lot of children are hospitalized every year for something new or for an infection. My child had all of his shots for the first year then I stopped because he was having problems sleeping for several nights and running fevers that would put me back in the doctors office. I wanted to take a break for awhile to let him rest. In the next 6mo I will be getting his shots again but in half doses. I was told any doctor will do that for you and it's much better on the child's system. I have a friend that will not get her child vaccinated and I watched her and mainly her daughter suffer in Children's Hospital with the rotto virus it was horrible and that alone made me realize right then and there my child will always have his shots. Plus you will need to look into what school you will be sending your child to because some school policy's are you can not enroll your child at all if they are not up to date on all shots which means you might have to look into home schooling. Just remember it is your child and your overall decision. Make sure you don't do anything out of presser. |
| posted by Elizabeth on 04/06/2008 02:12 PM
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hI eLIZABETH
not sure what u mean by 1/2 doses I never heard of that do u mean for example getting the MMR in 3 sep. doses ??
Laura |
| posted by laura on 04/06/2008 09:05 PM
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| My oldest got the varicella shot and still got chicken pocks 4 months later. They don't always work the way they are supposed to. When I was young there was no vaccination for chicken pocks. We all got it the old fashioned way. |
| posted by Wendy on 04/06/2008 10:43 PM
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| About the half dose. Just tell the doctor to put only half the dose in the syringe when you go for the shot. Then it's not so harsh. Then you can always get the other half later if you want. I don't because they are already putting to much in as it is I read that baby's were getting the same dose we as adults would get. |
| posted by Elizabeth on 04/07/2008 08:27 AM
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I found this on http://www.thinktwice.com/laws.htm a site dedicated to helping parents navigate the laws surrounding vaccines. If you plan on sending your child to a private school, then they do not have to accept any type of waiver, but as far as public schools go, they must unless you live in the two states listed below. I am fortunate enough to live in MI where, so far we haven't run into any trouble. I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't believe there is a vaccine for Rotavirus. Having been or not been vaccinated would not change the outcome in this situation. I would not want you to make such a huge decision, just because you know someone whose baby became ill. There are a lot of nasty viruses and diseases out there that run there course regardless of your vaccine status.
2. Are vaccines mandatory for my children to get into a public daycare, school, or college?
A. No. State laws "mandating" vaccines also permit exemptions.
Q. Is there any way to get around the legal requirements that daycare, school, etc. force on parents to have their children vaccinated? Thank you.
A. Vaccines are NOT required to enter public daycare or school. Each state offers a waiver to the requirements. Aquire a copy of the state vaccine laws to learn about your rights. Then write and submit an exemption. You can research the laws on your own at the library. Or you can order your Exact State Law and a Sample Affidavit from this website.
Q. I work in a clinic and I had a woman call me in tears because her son's school told her that they would expel him if he didn't get his vaccinations. Is that actually legal? I hope to have enough control as a parent to make an informed decision about vaccinations.
All states, except for Mississippi and West Virginia, offer a philosophical or religious exemption. This woman does NOT have to legally vaccinate her child. She needs to become empowered by understanding her state vaccine laws.
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| posted by Shanna on 04/07/2008 09:18 AM
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Wendy the chicken pox vaccination is new anyways they just started it within the past few years cause I am like you I got the chicken pox when I was 3...I think that the older you are when you get chicken pox the worse it is...that is one shot I could do without.
Shanna there is a shot for rotavirus because my son got it at his 2mo appt.
I have a problem with people using religion as an excuse for things they don't want to do. It makes me feel like people are making fun of the religions when they are doing it. There has got to be another excuse to use |
| posted by Amers on 04/07/2008 10:59 AM
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Chicken pox is a childhood illness; this is a virus that if you get it once (in most cases) that you will never get it again. My husband got chicken pox in his 30’s, he was very sick but no where near death. As long as it is diagnosed properly and treated correctly there should not be any complications.
Check out this article about the rotavirus vaccine, the FDA has issues with is causing serious problems and death in some.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/63074.php
I can’t speak for all non vaccinating parents, but I don’t think that any are making fun of any religion. The states need to all give the Philosophical exemption; this would cover ethical, personal reasons. I don’t think that anyone at anytime should be forced by our government to have something injected into their body (or their child’s) that they feel would do mare harm, that goes against everything in our constitution.
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| posted by sillymom on 04/07/2008 12:23 PM
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| I completely understand that, but saying that you won't do it for religious reasons is a cop out, thats why so many people have a problem now with people who are actually religious |
| posted by Amers on 04/07/2008 12:56 PM
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That would depend on how someone views religion, or their own religion. I prefer to use the term faith, since faith is so different for everyone. I can’t speak for anyone but myself and I don’t think that god wants me to inject harmful chemicals or a variety of viruses and bacteria into myself or my children. Now someone else can say that god gave them this idea to fight off illnesses. It can go either way.
It is unfortunate that anyone would have to even have an exemption. Part of democracy is freedom of choice and as Americans we are loosing them all the time.
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| posted by sillymom on 04/07/2008 01:16 PM
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I'm with you sillymom. If a religious exemption is all you have in your pocket to use, you've got to use it. I agree that, at
the least, all states should have a philosophical exemption. But you're right in your thinking that we shouldn't even have to worry about these exemptions in the first place.
There is a vaccine for Rotavirus. It came out in 2006, so it is fairly new. However, rotavirus is a very common childhood illness (about as common as getting an ear ache).
According to the Mayo Clinic, "rotavirus infections are so common that most children have at least one bout with rotavirus by age 2 or 3.
However unpleasant, most rotavirus infections can be treated at home with extra fluids to prevent dehydration. Occasionally, severe dehydration requires intravenous fluids in the hospital. Sadly, dehydration related to rotavirus is a major cause of childhood deaths in developing countries."
So, once again, like the chicken pox, the pharmaceutical companies have developed a vaccine for a very common, mostly benign illness.
As to those who worry about non-vaccinated kids being in school (and I believe someone adressed this earlier)...It is estimated that over 90% of school aged children are vaccinated. So when an outbreak occurs, it is an overwhelming majority of those who have already been vaccinated that contract the disease. Just food for thought.
Another good group to examine who do not vaccinate are the Amish. Last I checked (and I will check again), their rates of autism have not risen with the rest of the population. There is no autism epidemic in the Amish community. If not vaccinating children was so bad, I think one would see all of these childhood diseases rampant in the Amish community; so much so that they would be wiped out. (Just more food for thought)
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| posted by Allison on 04/07/2008 02:09 PM
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Just found an article on the Amish. Please read the following (although it's slightly long:
The Age of Autism: The Amish anomaly
By Dan Olmsted
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Lancaster, PA, Apr. 18 (UPI) -- Part 1 of 2.
Where are the autistic Amish? Here in Lancaster County, heart of Pennsylvania Dutch country, there should be well over 100 with some form of the disorder.
I have come here to find them, but so far my mission has failed, and the very few I have identified raise some very interesting questions about some widely held views on autism.
The mainstream scientific consensus says autism is a complex genetic disorder, one that has been around for millennia at roughly the same prevalence. That prevalence is now considered to be 1 in every 166 children born in the United States. [now 1/150]
Applying that model to Lancaster County, there ought to be 130 Amish men, women and children here with Autism Spectrum Disorder.
Well over 100, in rough terms.
Typically, half would harbor milder variants such as Asperger's Disorder or the catch-all Pervasive Development Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified -- PDD-NOS for short.
So let's drop those from our calculation, even though "mild" is a relative term when it comes to autism.
That means upwards of 50 Amish people of all ages should be living in Lancaster County with full-syndrome autism, the "classic autism" first described in 1943 by child psychiatrist Leo Kanner at Johns Hopkins University. The full-syndrome disorder is hard to miss, characterized by "markedly abnormal or impaired development in social interaction and communication and a markedly restricted repertoire of activities and interests," according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
Why bother looking for them among the Amish? Because they could hold clues to the cause of autism.
The first half-dozen articles in this ongoing series on the roots and rise of autism examined the initial studies and early accounts of the disorder, first identified by Kanner among 11 U.S. children born starting in 1931.
Kanner wrote that his 1938 encounter with a child from Mississippi, identified as Donald T., "made me aware of a behavior pattern not known to me or anyone else theretofore." Kanner literally wrote the book on "Child Psychiatry," published in 1934.
If Kanner was correct -- if autism was new and increasingly prevalent -- something must have happened in the 1930s to trigger those first autistic cases. Genetic disorders do not begin suddenly or increase dramatically in prevalence in a short period of time.
That is why it is worth looking for autistic Amish -- to test reasoning against reality. Largely cut off for hundreds of years from American culture and scientific progress, the Amish might have had less exposure to some new factor triggering autism in the rest of population.
Surprising, but no one seems to have looked.
Of course, the Amish world is insular by nature; finding a small subset of Amish is a challenge by definition. Many Amish, particularly Old Order, ride horse-and-buggies, eschew electricity, do not attend public school, will not pose for pictures and do not chat casually with the "English," as they warily call the non-Amish.
Still, some Amish today interact with the outside world in many ways. Some drive, use phones, see doctors and send out Christmas cards with family photos. They all still refer to themselves as "Plain," but the definition of that word varies quite a bit.
So far, from sources inside and outside the Amish community, I have identified three Amish residents of Lancaster County who apparently have full-syndrome autism, all of them children.
A local woman told me there is one classroom with about 30 "special-needs" Amish children. In that classroom, there is one autistic Amish child.
Another autistic Amish child does not go to school.
The third is that woman's pre-school-age daughter.
If there were more, she said, she would know it.
What I learned about those children is the subject of the next column.
PART 2: The Age of Autism: Julia
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Leola, PA, Apr. 19 (UPI) -- Part 2 of 2.
Three-year old Julia is napping when I arrive at the spare, neat, cheerful house on Musser School Road near the town of Leola in Lancaster County.
She is the reason I have driven through the budding countryside on this perfect spring day, but I really do not need to meet her.
In the last column, I wrote about trying to find autistic Amish people here in the heart of Pennsylvania Dutch country, and noted there should be dozens of them -- if autism occurs at the same prevalence as the rest of the United States.
So far, there is evidence of only three, all of them children, the oldest age 9 or 10. Julia is one of them. I found out about her through a pediatrician in Richmond, Va., Dr. Mary Megson. I had been asking around for quite some time about autism and the Amish, and she provided the first direct link.
Megson said she would give my name to this child's mother, who could call if she chose. A few days later the phone rang. It was Stacey-jean Inion, an Amish-Mennonite woman. She, her husband Brent and their four children live simply, but they do drive a vehicle and have a telephone. After a few pleasantries, I told her about my trying to find autistic Amish.
Here is what she said, verbatim:
"Unfortunately our autistic daughter -- who's doing very well, she's been diagnosed with very, very severe autism -- is adopted from China, and so she would have had all her vaccines in China before we got her, and then she had most of her vaccines given to her in the United States before we got her.
"So we're probably not the pure case you're looking for."
Maybe not, but it was stunning that Julia Inion, the first autistic Amish person I could find, turned out to be adopted -- from another country, no less. It also was surprising that Stacey-jean launched unbidden into vaccines, because the Amish have a religious exemption from vaccination and presumably would not have given it much thought.
She said a minority of Amish families do, in fact, vaccinate their children these days, partly at the urging of public health officials.
"Almost every Amish family I know has had somebody from the health department knock on our door and try to convince us to get vaccines for our children," she said. "The younger Amish more and more are getting vaccines. It's a minority of children who vaccinate, but that is changing now."
Did she know of any other autistic Amish? Two more children, she said.
"One of them, we're very certain it was a vaccine reaction, even though the government would not agree with that."
Federal health officials have said there is no association between vaccinations and autism or learning disabilities.
"The other one I'm not sure if this child was vaccinated or not," she added.
During my visit to their home, I asked Stacey-jean to explain why she attributed the first case to vaccines.
"There's one family that we know, their daughter had a vaccine reaction and is now autistic. She was walking and functioning and a happy bright child, and 24 hours after she had her vaccine, her legs went limp and she had a typical high-pitched scream. They called the doctor and the doctor said it was fine -- a lot of high-pitched screaming goes along with it.
"She completely quit speaking," Stacey-jean said. "She completely quit making eye contact with people. She went in her own world."
This happened, Stacey-jean said, at "something like 15 months." The child is now about 8.
For similar reasons, Julia Inion's Chinese background is intriguing. China, India and Indonesia are among countries moving quickly to mass-vaccination programs. In some vaccines, they use a mercury-based preservative called thimerosal that keeps multiple-dose vials from becoming contaminated by repeated needle sticks.
Thimerosal was phased out of U.S. vaccines starting in 1999, after health officials became concerned about the amount of mercury infants and children were receiving. The officials said they simply were erring on the side of caution, and that all evidence favors rejection of any link between Autism Spectrum Disorders and thimerosal, or vaccines themselves.
Julia's vaccinations in China -- all given in one day at about age 15 months -- may well have contained thimerosal; the United States had stopped using it by the time she was born, but other countries with millions to vaccinate had not.
Stacey-jean said photographs of Julia taken in China before she was vaccinated showed a smiling alert child looking squarely at the camera. Her original adoptive family in the United States, overwhelmed trying to cope with an autistic child, gave Julia up for re-adoption. The Inions took her in knowing her diagnosis of severe autism.
I tried hard -- and am still trying -- to find people who know about other autistic Amish. Of the local health and social service agency personnel in Lancaster, some said they dealt with Amish people with disabilities, such as mental retardation, but none recalled seeing an autistic Amish.
Still, I could be trapped in a feedback loop: The Amish I am likeliest to know about -- because they have the most contact with the outside world -- also are likeliest to adopt a special-needs child such as Julia from outside the community, and likeliest to have their children vaccinated.
Another qualifier: The Inions are converts to the Amish-Mennonite religion (Brent is an Asian-American). They simply might not know about any number of autistic Amish sheltered quietly with their families for decades.
It also is possible the isolated Amish gene pool might confer some kind of immunity to autism -- which might be a useful topic for research.
Whatever the case, Stacey-jean thinks the autistic Amish are nowhere to be found.
"It is so much more rare among our people," she said. "My husband just said last week that so far we've never met a family that lives a healthy lifestyle and does not vaccinate their children that has an autistic child. We haven't come across one yet."
"Everywhere I go (outside the Amish community) I find children who are autistic, just because I have an autistic daughter -- in the grocery store, in the park, wherever I go. In the Amish community, I simply don't find that."
UPI researcher Kyle Pearson contributed to this article.
This ongoing series on the roots and rise of autism aims to be interactive with readers and welcomes comment, criticism and suggestions. E-mail: dolmsted@upi.com
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| posted by Allison on 04/07/2008 02:26 PM
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